A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

I like the PP 2000 better.
http://en.rian.ru/video/20090401/120861319.html

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Not really the handgun, but the ammo. That is some nasty stuff they are firing there.

I wonder would a normal 9mm be able to fire that ammunition?

I doubt it, but would be interesting to know either way.

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Where's Wallew?

There's no way any 9x19 is defeating a vest.:sarc:

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Yup...another piece of "sexy" Russian engineering.

It shoots a 65 grain AP bullet at ~1755 feet/second. No big surprise that it will pop through armor. In looking at the picture of the AP ammo, it looks like the subcaliber penetrator core is set in some sort of sabot. +P+ pressures to get the muzzle velocity needed to defeat armor.

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Go the HK MP7A1 instead...

http://www.youtube.com./watch?v=YjY0Us7NOns

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Exactly........which is why AP handgun ammo is prohibited.

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Sweet. Let's see them put a serial number on that.

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

all of my handguns will defeat body armor.

"headshot"

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

There are easier ways available right now. You can buy a CZ52 or Tok in 7.62x25 and use normal surplus FMJ. Small diameter, high velocity.

And .357 SIG is close to doing it out of a normal length barrel. If you go just a little longer, you will get through. So get a Glock 35 long slide in .40 S&W, then replace the barrel with one in .357 SIG. I've been told that's the reason Glock never made the G34/35 in .357 SIG. They thought it was a bad idea to make a gun that some LEO's might decide to carry but which could penetrate their vests if a bad guy got it away from them.

And then there is 5.7mm. The factory AP ammo can't be sold to civilians anymore but you could do some interesting things with your very own reloads. No regulations that way!

And wanting a handgun that will go through vests doesn't mean you want to kill a cop. The bad guys are wearing vests themselves more and more. Mr. Wilson died in Tyler, TX while trying to intervene against a rifle armed killer. Mr. Wilson got multiple hits on the bad guy but they didn't get through the vests the guy was wearing. And so Mr. Wilson was killed. But his actions slowed the whole thing down and saved lives. He's a hero in my book even if he wasn't able to actually kill the bad guy himself.

Gregg

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

I didn't learn a thing from the Hollywood bank robbery.......

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

180 gr 7.62x25

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1241545105

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Nice picture, green tip & all. Do you have any info you might share re: powder/load, velocity, bullet type????

180 grains sounds like a VERY heavy boolit for a 7.62x25 pistol cartridge. Yes, I could stuff a 220gr round nose bullet into a 7.62x25 case, but there wouldn't be a lot of space for the powder.

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Seems more sensible to go with a .22 on a sabot.

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

I also think I read somewhere the original Czech 7.62 x 25 mm M48 loading used in the CZ52 pistol may do it. I've never seen any of the ammo. May be hearsay - don't know.
Take care,
Mod1

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Or find some "Real" green-tip AP ammo.....

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8505/ktw2.jpg

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

154 gr HPBT... Look familiar? It should. It's Russian manufacture.

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1241626829

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepa...adi_griff.html

That one should do it......

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Right ? Right tool for the right job.

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

Agree in principle. The problem is that the bad guys tend to attack and kill people without giving you enough time to go get a rifle. If you are at your kid's school and some whack job picks that moment to open up on the schoolyard with an AK, you may have to engage the guy _right now_ with the handgun you are carrying. If the bad guy has planned ahead and found some police type body armor, you may be in trouble.

(Yeah, I know. Shoot him in the head. Can't disagree with that in principle either but under fire against a moving target that is seconds away from killing you? It's a worthy goal but it would be an extremely difficult task in practice. What's that statistic... something like less than half the rounds fired by police hit the bad guy _anywhere_ at all?)

When I think of needing a gun that will go through body armor, I think of spree killers at schools or shopping malls. Or like the guy that Mr. Wilson took on at the courthouse in Tyler, TX. It's bad enough to have to try to close and engage a rifle shooter when you only have a handgun. It's even worse when your rounds bounce off the guy!!

In a perfect world, my CCW gun would slice through any vest made while still having every bit of the stopping power that it now has with its JHP's. And that perfect round would be available in the modern gun designs that I want to carry in the first place. And somehow that AP round would go through armor while not being a dangerously overpenetrating round either. I think it is fair to say that no such gun/cartridge combination exists at this time.

Those of you that were reading gun magazines back in the 1980's might remember an innovative 9mm specialty round. The BAT, Blitz Action Trauma. As I remember, it was solid copper and had a giant hollow point that went all the way through. It was funnel shaped like a regular hollow point but the small part at the back went all the way through. Then there was a little plastic cap that went on the front. It was light for caliber and had very high velocity. The cap helped it feed properly with that giant hollow point but it blew off after it left the barrel. The high velocity and tough material made it an excellent AP round. The giant hollow point expanded very well and made it work just as well as any other hollow point. It offered excellent penetration against tough things like auto windshields. It looked like the perfect round for my HK P7. But I haven't seen a word about them being for sale in decades. Straight copper bullets are supposed to be legal. Look at the bullets Barne's sells. Copper mixed with other metals to create harder alloys are restricted. Anybody know why the BAT went away?

Gregg

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

With a swaging press, you can put anything into the center of a lead bullet.
Even things which (by definition of local, state and federal laws) should not be there.


-end-

Re: A handgun to defeat any body armor
 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm

the above link shows the penetration of 7.62x25 through a kevlar lined helmet. i belive that vest's now are TOK proof.didn't stop me from picking up a CZ-52. love the round and the gun.